English translation of Demirtaş' interview published in Express magazine in early November:
There is a referendum preparation for change in presidency system. What is your opinion on the possibility of the referendum?
Considering the arithmetics in the parliament, we don't have a chance on stopping this process on our own. If MHP and AKP agree and have this legislation pass with no misses, there will be a referendum. Our preference is not to have any sort of referendum in such an environment. Because the biggest danger in such environments is to have fascism chosen in the ballots and 'justify' it through such institutionalization. The most critical danger and threat of this period is making a referendum as if it is a fair election and make the results permanent with such a justification. (...) However, we cannot remain motionless to the ballots as well.
What will you do then?
If there is a referendum in the horizon, we must explain to the society that this is a dictatorial regime under the name of presidency. It is an opportunity. We may not have same means as we had in the past but all oppositional groups should struggle with what remains in our hands realizing it won't be the final historical clearance. (...) I am not afraid of the referendum. We will for sure reach a good result there (...) However, if we consider the collaboration between MHP and AKP, how media has one voice and how the campaign will focus on Erdogan, he may reach over 50 % in the referendum. Such a result will lead to 'Presidency is supported by people, therefore is justified.' On the other hand, we will certainly reach a success level higher than 7th June. Depending on that we can push the level of struggle and make it leap. (...)
If the new presidency regime is accepted, does the Palace have power enough to institutionalize it?
Erdogan is not the kind of leader who can construct systems. Now is the moment where he feels the most powerful. Even if everybody thinks that Erdogan has declared full authority and there is no turning back, I don't agree with that. (...) Erdogan can construct a political order limited to himself. When he is politically over, there won't be an Erdoganism to follow. A fragmented AKP, a destroyed state structure... His base will run after a new right formation. However, the damage Erdogan has done won't be circumvented after him. He created a nationalist- Islamist mass that can strangle anyone across him. In Turkey, there have always been nationalism and Islamism, never have they become a big mass such as today. This mass learned to use the streets with Erdogan's encouragement and state's support. And they see all social bodies who don't agree with them politically as a threat. They await the orders to clear these bodies physically. This is the danger.
How can we overcome the danger?
The only way is to go to the people, door-to-door, face-to-face. The process cannot continue with political calls from above, elitist discourse or pompous words. We need to treat it as a coming election, to earn people's trust, to explain the process, to discuss what can be done with people and to move step-by-step from the base. We need to prepare the base, the opposition. (...) The Turkish society should oppose this fascism in meetings, public squares. HDP works hard to weave this structure. We have been re-positioning our preparations, organizations and political bodies in the last one and a half months. We are organizing meetings to create the perspective that will carry this work to the people, neighbourhoods, streets. We are confident. I am not in despair, nor pessimistic. There is always one advantage when the oppression is exaggerated beyond measure: To be able stand up means victory. You don't need to respond to the attacks in the same measures. The one who attacks beyond measure has a disadvantage: If the opposing side cannot be destroyed despite the big force behind, it is defeat. That is why Turkey's opposition should take a good advantage of the situation. (...)
(...) With what kind of discourse can you encourage people who have become afraid of attending a press declaration to go out to demand their democratic rights?
(...) First of all, we are planning and preparing a campaign against state of emergency (SoE). SoE has no more justification. It looks like SoE is designed to remain permanently, to become the routine order. (...) We will speak with people, door-to-door, face-to-face (...) Not only as HDP, we want to collaborate with everyone who can read things correctly like CHP, Halkevleri (People's Houses), June Movement to the tiniest platforms. (...) Fear is contagious, but so is courage. Fear has contaminated people from above. They have right to be afraid. In this country, some were buried alive in cellars. Ten thousands of people were sacked, meetings were bombed, hundreds of youth killed. That is why there is no meaning to ask the society 'Why are you afraid?' This period doesn't require a from above attitude 'Let's gather in the streets'. We need to be patiently working to reconstruct hope from below. We need to enlarge our political field by digging new channels like ants. The rest will follow. This struggle is not for a week, nor a month. Turkey entered a new zone after 15th July. The channels of democratic politics were close to zero before, now they are below zero. We should work for returning back to 'regular' period before 7th June -however regular and democratic it was. Behaving as if Turkey would overcome this period with an ordinary opposition is what Erdogan desires. We want to prove, without submitting: We are not defeated; Erdogan didn't win.
(...) There is a judicial process at work targeting HDP MPs and co-leaders. Some MPs are asked to be brought to court by force, their imprisonment seems possible. How do are these conditions perceived in the party?
There are possible detainments, imprisonments. We, including co-leaders, can be targeted by a judicial operation. It is possible and there is no legal impediment in front of such a decision. But why didn't they? Since January, Erdogan orders day and night in public “Take their impunity back. The judiciary should do what is needed in emergency.” Thus they don't do it because of their compassion? Of course,not. They press the brakes every time they calculate the high costs. However, the tension-conflict is becoming more serious. So Erdogan can decide to pay the costs anytime.
What kind of costs?
He can decide to pay some political costs both in Turkey and the region. Therefore, we can be imprisoned. We are trying to keep our base at an organization level where they can react, protest with all means and prove to own its democratic will. Our diplomacy work is part of this headline. When we are imprisoned, we are expecting an important international solidarity- we made some preparations. We are in a strong position. The whole world sees them as a representation of ISIS and HDP as a star shining in darkness. We have made good use of our advantage in diplomacy so far and have brought it to this level (...) On the other hand, we are working hard so they don't commit such a mad act. However if they do, we want to show them it is not that easy. When this happens, it can lead to the leap of HDP, not block. Everybody should act confident keeping this in mind (...)
It is suggested as a chance for historical alliance between HDP and CHP if there is a referendum for full presidency. Are there such conditions between two bases in that regard?
The relationship between Kemalism and left, Kemalism and Kurdish movement is not independent from profit and line wars in Middle East. It is dull to consider HDP-CHP, HDP- June Movement- People's Houses relationships independent of those. That is why, one cannot say 'let us collaborate this week and next we will see'. But as the co-leader of HDP I think we should be open to strategical collaborations. It is worth collaborating for an election, for a referendum, even for a campaign or for a move. They should be open, so should we. But the main point is: Why can't we do it? Because what Kurds gain in the Middle East and Turkey is thought to be dangerous for the Turkish and Turkey. Since we cannot agree on this issue, it becomes almost impossible to make a strategic partnership. The Kemalists, Kemalist left, nationalists and nationalist left blame Kurdish to center on their own benefits and collaborate with imperialism for the struggle. On the other side, the Kurdish movement which HDP is part of tries to explain that it is not a tactical collaboration but a strategical collaboration with peoples and progressives of Turkey. (...) For the Kurdish movement, it is an indispensable collaboration. But the Kemalist left and left close to them insist not to understand this. Thanks to the situation, it becomes more and more difficult to unify the opposition in Turkey behind one front. But we should discuss the situation. Each one of us has the duty to discuss with this left understanding, means CHP, June Movement, Kemalist left that sees Kurdish movement as a nationalist understanding that only fights for its own benefits to convince them. We cannot give up on each other. (...) We should all run a campaign against making dictatorship official under the name of presidency. (...) However, no one should expect us to go to Yenikapi and take side with Erdogan's line and call it a form of opposition. A self-criticism should happen on this attitude.
The CHP base is not comfortable with 'Yenikapi spirit' either.
We are the third biggest party in the parliament. To earn votes from other parties' bases, to convince them is also our right alongside all. We are telling CHP base that they don't deserve such a management. Such a management is torture to CHP base. How many CHP voters were in Yenikapi? I don't think there was one. On the opposite, CHP base got scared of the stage spirit in Yenikapi and back-stepped. The CHP management should criticize themselves saying 'We have done something that regressed the opposition.' (...) Kilicdaroglu in Yenikapi unleashed the political coup of Erdogan.(...) It is not Yenikapi where we should all meet. If the opposition wants to come together, that place is the Gezi spirit. Let us meet there. Is there another spirit that can gather us other than Gezi?
What would you do if you were the leader of the opposition?
I can't put myself in Kilicdaroglu's shoes. But if I had that power, if my party was in that position, the first thing I'd do is to call for a ceasefire to PKK. I'd say “Leave the guns. Cease fire. We take initiative as the main opposition party to create the conditions where you can leave all of your guns against Turkey. Please give a chance to democratic politics. We will announce an alternative resolution process program as the second party. For that you should stop the guns.” We are saying this as HDP now, it would create a complete different effect if we had that power. And I would turn to the society and say “AKP has run a resolution program and used it for its own benefits. We want to start a different resolution program. This is our aim, this is what we want. The mechanisms, the legal baselines, the target, the period is as follows.” I'd ask for the full support of the society. After declaring such a program, let us see how AKP and Erdogan would continue this war! The palace's war would lose its complete base. After such a program we would see how PKK continues its activities! You are asking what we would do as the main opposition. At least we would do this and generate an opportunity to grow societal opposition with an amazing energy. (...) The main opposition party claims it is social democratic, takes 25 % support from Turkish voters mainly and has a democratic base. However, it uses such a power only as a carte blanche for government's war against Kurds. This is the bottleneck where all clogs. The politics will pour down from here. The territory CHP occupies blocks peace, democratization and struggle against AKP. Every time AKP is cornered, they help the fascist system with their mistakes in the name of state sovereignty. We cannot move on without pointing it out or criticizing it. To criticize CHP is not opposing the opposition anymore, it is part of opposing the government. (...)
With the repressive politics, the invasion the academics, students, teachers, women, the ones who asks for their rights face everyday, the question we hear most is “How will we wake up from this nightmare?” Do you have an answer?
There is no simple formula. No one should say “We will wake up from the nightmare with doing such and such.” We are inside a swirl that would happen once a hundred years. No one should think that Turkey entered a few months political crisis and it would resolve soonest. The students, workers, officers, academics and parliamentarians may be imprisoned, but not to accept the ground Erdogan proposes and to say “No, I won't compromise with you there,” is the real resistance. Everybody should show this attitude everywhere. We can't realize what we want without paying its price. Our freedom may be taken away, we may be sacked, we may be beaten. Without paying them, it doesn't make sense to say “We defend democracy and freedom nonetheless.” The ones who decided to pay price after 12th September coup left a legacy for the future. And the future took shape with it. Now, we are under worse circumstances. There wasn't such a pressure in that period. Yes, the bare naked toughness was more. However, there wasn't such an insidious fascism calling itself democracy and such an effort to institutionalize it. If we don't resist now, if we don't pay the price now, when will we do it? That is the only way I know. Erdogan will say presidency, state of emergency, one nation, one language, one sect, he will be the one deciding everything and say to the opposition “If you want to compromise, here is the ground.” We say no. It can get more difficult to say no by everyday. There was a price for saying no before 15th July but it wasn't as heavy. For that reason, the rectors, the judges submit to him. May some people think so. We consider all prices as a party and to stand even if we are on our own is enough to show Erdogan cannot win. We may not win as either but we won't let Erdogan win. We resist to return to normalized struggle conditions and to cancel the state of emergency and dictatorship and we will be successful. Erdogan cannot win as long as we are here. Erdogan's win depends on our disappearance and submission. As we certainly won't, all should feel at ease and take their place in the line of resistance. There are two fronts in Turkey today: The ones who resist and the ones who are in alliance with fascism, who obey the Palace. There is no more difference. Kurdish, Turkish, rich, poor, woman, man....Yes, these are the separation categories in the society, but now the main separation is between the ones who resist and the ones who submit. As HDP, we are on the side of resistance and we invite all here. Resist in every way. Some pray to resist, some go out on the street, some in academia, some in prison. At least one can say “I am not submitting to Erdogan,” to oneself. May people resist, we will win.
November 4, 2016
You may read the original interview by İrfan Aktan here.